institutional church vs. original Christianity

[etherea]

I found this opinion that seems to say that traditional churches can't be communities and are not the way church was originally intended to be. I wonder about that because it seems like lots of people are able to worship and have meaningful relationships in regular denominational churches. But after reading this, I'm thinking maybe they are not. Do you think the author of the following opinion is right?

Catholic and Protestant church models are not natural for new Christians who were never exposed to the traditional churches prior to their conversion. These new Christians find it difficult to accept the institutionalized church with its ritual services. They do not desire "church". They desire "community". They see quickly that the institutionalized church with its traditional practices are unnatural to community.



These Christians desire the presence of Jesus Christ. They desire to be part of Christianity where primary focus is placed on Jesus, not discussion related to Jesus. These Christians edify one another naturally. Sermonizing is unnatural to them.



Many Christians find it difficult to participate in choreographed praise and worship. To them, praise and worship should be spontaneous.



These Christians desire to gather with persons they know intimately. They find it unnatural to worship with casual acquaintances! They also find it unnatural to gather and sit quietly. They come together expecting to function! They gather to emphasize all gifts. They would never emphasize one man or one gift to the exclusion of women with gifts!



The institutional church with its traditional worship is foreign to original Christianity.

The whole blog entry is here: <URL url="http://lambofgod.blogstream.com/v1/pid/86593.html">http://lambofgod.blogstream.com/v1/pid/86593.html



And another thing that made me wonder was the part about it being difficult to participate in choreographed praise and worship. I know he was talking mainly about service order, but what about choreographed dance? Can somebody really participate in choreographed dance if they are not the ones dancing? Maybe that's a whole other subject!

[Dave]

<QUOTE author="etherea,Sep 14 2006, 12:22 AM">

...but what about choreographed dance? Can somebody really participate in choreographed dance if they are not the ones dancing? Maybe that's a whole other subject!

Very briefly, yes in my view.



In performance, there is frequently an interaction between performer and audience, such that those watching are "drawn in" to what's being danced and can identify with it. In my experience (and I work with a dance ministry that performs choreographed dances) you can definitely participate in choreographed dance even if you're not dancing.



The same is also true in worship - dancers can express themselves on behalf of others who (for various reasons) are not dancing. And again, those watching can identify with the dancers and become part of the dance.



(And as an aside, worship and performance are not mutually exclusive).



Hope this helps,



Dave

[HelenaZF]

I think you could, in a way, consider a whole traditional worship service a "choreographed" dance. There is a set order, and set "performers" who present their parts at pre-decided moments. And even times of spontaneity can be choreographed in a sense, by making a place for spontaneous things to happen.



And yet, people do connect with God....they do offer up worship and have some measure of participation. It seems very narrow to say that only an unstructured format would promote community and "true" worship expression.



And in worship dance presentations, I think the observer has the opportunity to imagine his own spirit dancing right along side the person actually doing the dance. He participates because his heart is being offered up the Lord at the same time. Worship dance can almost be thought of as a priestly function in that regard.

[DeanZF]

<QUOTE author="HelenaZF,Sep 14 2006, 06:00 PM">

I think you could, in a way, consider a whole traditional worship service a "choreographed" dance.

That was the sense that I got from Etherea's post, too.



Here in the US, there is a big push on for "seeker friendly" services, the sort that might appeal to the unchurched, MTV, Sesame Street generations. Highly choreographed, very predictable, move 'em in, move 'em out, next crowd please mentality. I hate it. There, absolutely there is no sense of community. There is a sense of theater, though. Show's over, time to leave, dear.



As to larger traditional churches, I'll reserve my thoughts for just a while longer. I don't want to explode too early and cause others not to participate... <EMOJI seq="1f607">:innocent:</EMOJI>

[flaglady]

For a long time I belonged to various Anglican churches and found the tight, traditional services very constraining. There was a "Common Book of Prayer" with every service form laid out and adhered to as it has been since the early 16th century! Maybe even before! One recited the same prayers at the same point, week after week after week. True, they are beautiful prayers and very meaningful. The Confession, the Nicene Creed, the Lord's Prayer; no-one would claim them to be anything other than wonderful expressions of faith. Yet I found it stultifying to repeat them week after week without variation.



Sad thing is, having now been in AoG for over 6 years, I miss them! But not enough to swap them for the free-wheeling worship and praise of a good ol' Pentecostal meeting!



BTW - what's all that about not liking new people?! We have loads of new folk every week and love to see new faces. New fruit for the Kingdom - yay!! :twirl: :piano: hofar: :disco: :rimshot: :crossflag:

[etherea]

In performance, there is frequently an interaction between performer and audience, such that those watching are "drawn in" to what's being danced and can identify with it. In my experience (and I work with a dance ministry that performs choreographed dances) you can definitely participate in choreographed dance even if you're not dancing.



The same is also true in worship - dancers can express themselves on behalf of others who (for various reasons) are not dancing. And again, those watching can identify with the dancers and become part of the dance.

Oh, so in your imagination, you kind of see the dancer then as dancing "as" you? Like it is your own spirit that is dancing?



That makes sense.



And it does seem as if the forms can prevent worship, or enhance it according to your own particular view of them. Or maybe it's the timing--I'm not sure. I know that sometimes I have experienced a real sense of God's presence when the Lord's Prayer was being recited, and other times it is just flat and lifeless.

[HelenaZF]

Having complete freedom, and responsibility to go nowhere in a service without a direct leading is pretty exhiliarating, but also exhausting. And it's very hard to sustain that level of spontaneity....in fact, most groups that start that way form their own "liturgy" of format and pacing before too long, just because it is so hard to keep on doing things "new".



I've come to think of the liturgy, forms and prayers as kind of a worship outline of sorts, that God can jump into at any time and either expand upon or bring in a new piece of information or activity. Having the outline there is very comforting and sustaining, because just like a literal outline, all the important information is already laid out there. If God chooses not to move or speaksomething outside of the outline, we can continue on in the outline until He does, and have a full experience even if He doesn't break in with something new or different. And when a particular move has come to it's fullness, we know just where to go next. Because we have the outline of the liturgy.



And that doesn't mean that the Lord can't move WITHIN the outline as well. We might be moving through the communion time, and a special healing anointing is being ministered to people at the rail. We might be saying the confession, and a heart is quietly being changed and received into the kingdom. It's just as valid a sovereign move of God as the more obvious prophetic utterances or stopping of the service to minister in some other way.